jeanrabelais

Looking forward to reading through this thread since I too love the Ferrari 458.

9eight7

What are the maintenance costs for a 458? Let’s say minor and major maintenance?

Drifting

Resurrecting this thread, but this time looking to compare a Spyder RS to a 458 Spyder. Below I’ve posted the CD Lightning Laps at VIR. Naturally, modern rubber makes a significant difference, but on this VIR list a 458 is slower than a GT4RS by ten seconds. I expect an Spyder RS would be faster at the Ring and VIR vs a 458 spider on equal tires.

Because Ferrari lies their *** off, I did some research on the real weight and 0-60 of a 458 Spider and found the 458 to actually weigh 450 lbs more than the SRS (assuming PCCB on SRS, as PCCB are stock on 458). Using car and driver data, the Spyder RS is also a full half second quicker 0-60 (3.3 seconds vs 2.8 seconds). In addition to weight and lap times, the SRS is also a more “tossable” car. (458 is 4 inches wider and 4 inches longer than a Spyder RS).

monkiboy48

Not sure why everyone is always comparing lap times and performance. At the end of the day it comes down to driver excitement behind the wheel and you can't beat a Ferrari 458 for experience. I can't comment directly as I haven't driven a 458 spider or Spyder rs, but my Spyder rs is on order expected to be delivered in June and I came from a 458 Speciale. I have had my share of Ferraris (Scuderia, f12, California t, and 458 Speciale), gt3 and 911s, caymans and boxsters and am over the "show off phase". You know, paying all this exorbitant money to have the pretty car that looks cool and sounds amazing. If I lived where a track was present or a mountain pass then it would be different, but where I live it's all about the parking lots and the short spurts on the freeway and I couldn't justify it anymore. I believe the Spyder rs is the one for the public road and look forward to experiencing it.

Bottom line, 458 is an exciting car...more exciting than a Spyder rs...I will let you know when I get mine. And to answer the thread title, the Spyder and Spyder rs will have greater performance (especially in the turns), but it won't be as exciting.

fxz

the spyder 718 is a dead horse in compare to any 458

Drifting

I agree the 458 has a presence and a sound that is unmatched by other NA sports cars. I had a 458 coupe myself. However, I grew tired of the attention, and the actual performance and reliability was more show than go.
It looked nice in my garage but ultimately I didn’t use it much, and so I moved on.

I don’t plan to ever sell my incoming Spyder RS and I plan to put lots of miles on it. A race car engine stuffed into a smaller, lighter, “tossable” package will be rewarding to drive.

ipse dixit

Even as a Ferrari fanboi, I would take the Spyder any day of the week and 3x on Sunday.

The Porsche is just a better car. As it should be. It's almost 15 years "older" in terms of development and engineering.

cooler2442

Funny this thread came up, I have a 4RS and have been thinking about what to pair with the 4RS for my 2 car garage. Here are my top choices:

1. Ferrari 458 - I want to cross Ferrari ownership off my bucket list and I know that it won't be as good as my 4RS but that's why I'm also keeping my 4RS to pair with it. I'd have to get the carbon buckets though to give it more of a race car feel. Seems to be the best Ferrari to get sub 225k that won't break the bank for maintenance/reliability.
2. Manual 991.2 GT3. I prefer the 991.2 GT3 over the 992 GT3 due to the rawness but I'm very particular about Porsche specs so I would have to find a PTS god tier spec similar to my 4RS. Seems like a manual 991.2 GT3 + 4RS would be an almost perfect pairing.
3. Spyder RS - Two dealers have promised me one at MSRP in the next batch of allocations and if that happens it feels like I can't say no.

monkiboy48

(1) to me, the 458 is the perfect modern ferrari. It is the only mid engined na v8 dct ferrari and will always be one of the best. The carbon buckets are always a must for me as well. They provide a more "connected" experience as there is less insulation between your butt and the chassis. More feel comes through. I would be willing to bet you will enjoy it more than the 4rs in terms of sheer thrills and the "event" it provides when driving it.

(2) since they both practically have the same engine, i would recommend to go to a 997.2 gt3 to make it more raw and something different with the Metzger engine

(3) I had both allocations as well, but it just doesn't make sense owning practically 2 of the same car, so i let my gt4rs allocation go and took only the spyder rs. Since you want to check the "ferrari" ownership box I highly recommend you get the 458.

Good luck hunting for a 458!

348SStb

I am a Porschepile and am privileged to own several Porsches right now (991.2, 981, 982) in addition to having owned 991.2 GT3, 991 GTS, and having a Spyder RS on order.

I was also privileged to be a Ferrari collector for 14 years before giving up the Ferrari hobby back in 2018.

Here are my 2 cents.

There is not a single car that Porsche has ever made — from the beginning right up until current GT3 RS — that drives as well as, for example, a Ferrari 360 Modena. I got into my brother’s 360 (6-speed manual) a few months ago which I hadn’t driven in some years. The feel of the steering is superior in every way to whatever Porsche offers. The connection to the car via the transmission is superior to that of all the manual Porsches I’ve driven and owned. The Ferrari is more or less put together like crap in terms of finish and ergonomics, but as a driver’s car there’s just no comparison. The drivetrain in a car like the 360 is perfection. Naturally, the cars that came after the 360 are even better (except maybe for steering feel).

I owned an F430 6-speed and I can say the same about it. It’s even better than the 360, even if I prefer the sound of the 360 engine a bit.

Porsche is a great machine. It’s reliable, and it’s engineered using a fine scalpel. But it’s done within a budget and within a market. If Porsche cared to compete against Ferrari and build something at a higher price point to match it, I have no doubt the Porsche would be a better product overall.

There is no comparison between 458 Spider and 718 anything. You buy the Porsche because you like the Porsche more for some reason; you don’t buy the Porsche because you think on paper it’s better than the Ferrari. The Ferrari has the soul factor to which the Porsche only comes about 80% close. The Ferrari is also a car that is engineered with zero compromises: zero compromises in cost to build, zero compromises in terms of performance characteristics such as weight distribution, power delivery, etc. For Ferrari, performance is first and convenience is not considered until later, for better or for worse.

The 458 Spider is an outstanding machine, and so is the 718 Spyder. As a 981 Spyder owner I’d say it’s difficult to have more fun than the fun to be had in a 981/982 Spyder — just different kind of fun. The 458 Spider may be less fun because it lacks the manual or actually has too much power, but it may be more fun because it has arguably the best naturally aspirated engine ever produced together with a marvelous transmission — all packaged together with the prancing horse monikers all over the car, which for most people stir the soul like nothing else.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A test drive would solve the issue.

monkiboy48

This sums it up perfectly!!!

alcc

Agree 100%. I have a F430. Back in 2010, I wavered and decided against upgrading to a 458 because -- you'll laugh -- I did not like the solid, slabby side elevation and did not like the more synthetic sound. I also have a 4RS. Here's my 2 cents.

The GT3 "racing" engine may well be more robust than a Ferrari V8. Allegedly it can run flat out all day at the track, which is something I would never contemplate for a streetable Ferrari. Other than that, however, a Ferrari engine is magical in ways the GT3 engine cannot touch. It revs creamy and sweet as if inertia-free and friction-free. It is as happy at 9000 as at 4000. The GT3 engine sounds and feels stressed above 6500. Yes, it revs to 9000, but it does not sound happy doing it. The 5 valver in the 355 and the 360 sounds incredible. But the 430 and 458 engines have way better torque. It comes on cam at around 4500, which is exactly where you want the torque to swell and sling you to 9000. The GT3 engine (at least in the 4RS) has no such midrange shove. You only feel a slight swell at >7000, which imo is too late, and too short (to rev limit). Maybe fine for track work. But useless everywhere else. I heard the other guy (not Camissa) on Carmudgeon mention he has a sense of mechanical sympathy, which prevents him from pushing his GT3T past 7000. I understand completely what he means.

In addition to a magical engine, a Ferrari also has a special feeling of quickness and lightness, with a pointy front-end and a scary backend. By comparison, the 4RS feels so planted -- too planted. In the Ferrari I feel like I am wearing expensive lightweight track shoes. In the 4RS I feel like I am wearing heavy duty hiking boots. No doubt better for serious track use. But, everywhere else, the Ferrari feels zippy and fizzy and makes your spine tingle.

That said, Porsche puts any Ferrari to shame in terms of depth of engineering and build quality. The 4RS feels like a proverbial brick -- a German brick, at that. Ferraris are... Italian. Some parts of the car are well engineered and well screwed together. But there's that 10-20% that is bizarrely overlooked, and crap. I have never had any drivetrain issues in any of the Ferraris I've owned. So, they have been technically "reliable" cars. But I've had windows droop which need expensive adjustments or new regulators, AC compressors fail, suspension fails, door latch fails, sticky buttons, etc., etc...All "minor" stuff. But constantly annoying, and expensive. And that's before the exasperating rattles, creaks and groans.

Two very different cars. On paper, pretty close. In spirit/feel/sensations, like night and day.

monkiboy48

Well said! The engine and feeling of quickness and lightness is very true! It was one of the main reasons I traded in my gt3 for a scud back in the day.

348SStb

Not sure how much I agree with his post critiquing GT3 engine torque or the “happiness” aspect of the GT3 engine. Otherwise, great post by <alcc>.

Torque is a function of engine displacement alone on a naturally aspirated engine. (On a forced induction engine, torque swells with boost.)

Do we all know that the 992 GT3 engine produces more torque per liter than ANY other naturally aspirated engine the world has ever produced (for street cars) in history… except for the engine in the 458!

We are talking 86.58 ft-lbs per liter for GT3. That’s a massive amount of torque for a given displacement. (The 458 produces a whopping 88.50 ft-lbs per liter). Go ahead and do the division on any other naturally aspirated engine and see that no other engines are at those numbers.

If we examine the torque curves for each engine, we see that at 3,000 RPMs, each engine is producing roughly 89% of full torque. The torque curves appear nearly identical in terms of distribution, don’t they? The GT3 engine cannot compete with the larger 458 engine in terms of peak torque since it’s a smaller engine, but let’s remember the GT3 engine has a smidgeon higher specific power output (125.8 bhp/L to 124.97 bhp/L in 458).

It’s reasonable to conclude the GT3 engine is the best naturally aspirated boxer engine ever made and that the 458 engine is the best naturally aspirated V8 engine ever made. Sure most of us prefer the Ferrari engine because it’s bigger and produces more power and torque (not to mention its glorious sound); but the GT3 engine is arguably the best 4-Liter (or less) street engine ever produced, and it’s virtually identical in terms of its attributes despite having two fewer cylinders.

Drifting

Agree regarding everything that has been said regarding the experience both good and bad of driving a 458, and 430. I’ve never personally experienced a 360. The sound alone of the 430 and 458 is worth the price of admission, and frankly beats any NA Porsche.

However, I don’t believe that Ferrari achieved the engine figures they claimed for the 458. As another poster commented in this thread, 458s have been dynoed and found to have around 500hp at the crank, not 562. Same with torque. It’s closer to 360, not 398.

Modern 4.0L porsche GT cars achieve far more hp/liter vs a 430/458 because Porsche is honest and Ferrari is “optimistic”

But as ipse mentioned, the Ferrari came out almost 15 years ago, so not completely fair to compare the two.